Apollo 17 Crew Medical Debriefing (Continued), 1972

00:04speaker 1Okay, this is tape number 14. Continuation of section 23.0 with Jack Schmitt.

00:16speaker 2Okay, flight data file, CSM. Generally, I have nothing but praise for the flight data file, both vehicles. Uh there was very, very few things that one could have asked for to improve that data file for the uh Apollo 17, at any rate. One comment on the uh flight plan supplement. Uh we had uh split pages for uh uh number of the logging uh medical and uh food logging, and that probably was a mistake. Uh I think it was the idea was fairly good initially, but the pages uh we tended to only use that in the book as a whole, and it was a good place to keep them. And also, the pages uh if you had wanted them split, were too thin to maintain the split, and they tended to uh fall out of the book. I would recommend either not splitting or having heavier paper if uh the if you want them split.

01:32speaker 2Uh we had uh I had an extra cue card uh built for panel 229. I I think it was a excellent card that uh summarized the uh circuit breaker functions both on 229 and on on uh panel 8. Uh because we had no uh systems anomalies of any significance that would relate to that card, it was not used, but I uh would strongly recommend its availability, if only for training uh during the during the sims. It's a good quick review of what you lose or or uh retain uh for those two panels.

02:21speaker 2I uh in the flight plan, I added some pen-and-ink uh cues uh along the margins for certain observational uh targets that uh I particularly wanted to look at. Uh these are independent of any uh experiment uh designated experiment. And uh entered them as a I entered them as a function of uh of time, and that uh that seemed to work very well for me. Uh I think it had that kind of thing as an individual uh preference item. And uh if you have specific things that are not in the designated experiment, it ought to be flight planned uh if you're uh just plan to use your spare time for specific observational targets or types of observations, uh then I think uh the pen-and-ink uh is maybe the easiest way to go uh since it shouldn't uh concern any uh large number of people.

03:21speaker 2We uh Gordy Fullerton uh fixed up the circular orbital cue card for me with a similar uh designation of of of craters as a function of time. Uh I did not use that. Uh not because it wasn't a good idea, but because uh a familiarity with the moon, which uh came very quickly after a couple orbits, and you just uh you could recognize your position on the moon uh fairly easily uh as a function of each rev, either the time in the rev uh approximate time since sunset uh or just because you could look out the window and tell where you were.

04:12speaker 2In the LM, uh we uh the same comments apply. I think all the flight data file items were excellent. The uh I did not use the data card book to the extent that I know it was used on 15 and maybe on 16. Uh we logged most of our uh specific uh uh items such as uh alignment data and uh comparable kinds of things in the checklist at the point where they were collected, rather than in the data book, and uh had no This did not seem to raise any difficulty at any time.

05:04speaker 2The cuff checklist uh we've talked about, I think, uh in the surface items. I uh I thought the cuff checklist was excellent. I think we did the things, we had the right kind of photo maps in there uh that were uh useful for reference uh of where we were around a given station. I don't think we used them as much as I had anticipated using them, uh mainly because uh navigation was no problem, and the points that we had selected pre-flight were excellent uh points for investigation, and there was no need to try to to decide on alternative uh points to to try to study uh in the vicinity of a given station.

05:56speaker 2The uh list of items to be accomplished at each station, or to uh really they were mind-joggers uh to read at each station, uh were not, again, not as used as much as I thought they would be initially, but I think that was mainly because uh we both, at least I had become uh so familiar with the items that uh each station was in itself uh easy to recall as a result of having created the checklist. So, uh checklist was turned out to be more of a of a learning item uh rather than a reference item uh for use on the surface. I wouldn't have done it any differently, however.

06:51speaker 2I particularly uh want to uh compliment uh Chuck Lewis on the timeline book. That uh I really can't say anything but the timeline book was was very, very well done and very We had had no problems with the timeline book at all. But that, of course, applies to the to uh every every checklist that we had. Uh there were just no procedural errors that I could that uh that I recall in any of the books that we used.

07:21speaker 2Fortunately, we didn't have to use the malfunction uh book. Or the uh only uh once did I pull out the systems data book uh to check to check on a systems problem, and I uh right now can't remember what that was. I can't remember what it was, but I did use it once.

07:48speaker 2Charts and maps. I thought in the CSM that I would use uh the uh orbiter orbit what do they say, orbit monitor charts, I guess that's what they're called. And I had an extra one put on so it wouldn't interfere with the planned activities of uh of the CMP. I did not use that uh very much. I eventually did some sketching on it post-TEI. I think there are about five uh specific points that I labeled as areas uh A, B, C, D, maybe E, and these are referenced on my crew notebook, in my crew notebook, for specific uh observations. But in general, uh I did not put that to as much use as I expected. One item is that that chart should have been identical to the CMP's chart, and there were a few pen-and-ink changes left off of it that caused some confusion at one point, pen-and-ink uh exposure uh settings for certain uh photo targets.

09:01speaker 2The CSM uh lunar landmark maps that the LMP had added in the uh rear of that book uh again, were not used. I I really thought I would use those, but in the you became reluctant as you were observing a specific point or area, target, say, such as Gagarin or something like that, to uh to take time out to sketch on the photo. You I tended, for the two or three minutes that observation was possible of a given area, I tended to to look and then uh at the first opportunity to take notes in the notebook, rather than uh trying to sketch on the photograph. And I suspect that this was because uh I tended to look for generalizations about the target that I was trying to observe

10:00speaker 1other than uh uh checking out specific uh individual features, and uh they really uh did not seem to be any need to uh make notes about specific points on the pictures, and as a result, I did not use them.

10:17speaker 1Again, though, I think having uh selected them and studied them pre-flight uh made it worth having them around. Uh the necessity for flying them was probably less than the necessity for having reviewed them and studied them.

10:34speaker 1I think I still, if I had to do it again, I still would want to have that kind of data available in the spacecraft, even though it on this particular mission, it was not used.

10:45speaker 1I do think, though, that the CMP uh used his uh visual target maps uh considerably, and and I did on a couple of occasions uh use some of the uh ones that he had again, but uh for the most part, that was post-TEI, and uh I made some notes and sketches on some of those maps.

11:07speaker 1When the and I think that's just a function that there was a lot of time to look at the moon and make a sketch and then look back and and fix it up post-TEI, where in orbit, the time just did not exist.

11:22speaker 1As Dick Gordon said a couple of years ago, once you start flying, the clock is relentless.

11:36speaker 1Okay, general flight planning. Uh I was not very closely involved in the flight planning. Uh Ron sort of carried the burden of that uh for both Gene and myself. Uh I the flight plan was excellent. Uh we had no problems with it at all that I that I'm aware of.

12:01speaker 1Tommy Holloway and his people are to be complimented on that. The uh uh number of different requirements and uh experiments and uh general operational uh items that were required to be integrated one with the other uh was very, very high, and it was done in an extremely uh competent and uh and usable way.

12:39speaker 1And I don't can't think of anything that I would uh would change in the way the flight plan was written.

12:53speaker 1Okay, 23.5 uh pre-flight support. Pre-flight support was excellent uh in the flight data file area, and uh uh one specific item that I had uh was uh once the flight plan was well established, just about at the final stage, uh uh I had two or three, I don't remember, two or three uh briefing sessions where uh in the portions of the lunar orbit flight plan that I was going to be uh during which I would be in the uh was going to be in the spacecraft, in the CSM, uh we went over in detail the attitudes and maneuvers and the uh window availability so that that I was able to plan in a very short amount of time with minimum effort on my part uh the uh my own personal uh observations of the lunar surface.

14:03speaker 1And which went very well as far as planning was concerned.

14:09speaker 1Appreciated that uh that was extra, above and beyond the call of duty on the part of the flight planners, and uh I appreciated uh uh their uh taking time out to do that for me.

14:23speaker 1The uh I think it was uh useful to uh have the uh I think it was a day-long session uh where the flight controllers and the crew and the flight planners sat around uh in one room and went over those portions of the flight plan which were not normally simulated.

14:51speaker 1Uh it turned out that the flight plan had been so well done that uh I doubt if there were any specific items that uh came up that we needed to change or there was seemed to be a lack of coordination on. Uh this was in contrast to to uh previous flights where I flights where I think we were still learning uh all of us were learning on how to uh uh put together flight plans and integrate requirements. Uh Apollo 17 flight plan apparently uh reached the peak of perfection.

15:25speaker 1Uh I was a little bit disappointed in that briefing in that uh some of the uh people who would be eventually intimately involved in the mission were not at the uh flight plan review.

15:36speaker 1And I think this was because of of uh conflicts uh with other programs which the center was carrying out at the time.

15:55speaker 1Okay, 24.0, visual sightings.

16:07speaker 1Well, uh we've covered the countdown and uh launch, I think, pretty well in the previous sections.

16:24speaker 1Also, power flight, earth orbit, I think the transcript would cover the visual sightings that uh I made with respect to uh weather and uh and a few geographic uh observations, and that same would go for the uh fairly uh extensive uh weather observations that uh I tried to make trans-earth, or trans-lunar.

16:51speaker 1Uh trans-earth, we had only a uh small crescent of an earth, and it was not feasible to do any extensive uh weather observations.

17:00speaker 1Uh I don't know whether I've recorded yet that uh although we had light flashes uh just about continuously during the whole flight when you uh when it was when you were dark-adapted, and I may have even had one which I thought was a flash on the lunar surface uh during the first rev.

17:25speaker 1Um that one period of time when we had the blindfolds on for the ALFMED experiment, uh there just uh were no visible flashes, although the next that evening, that night, uh before I went to sleep, I noticed I was seeing the light flashes again. So, it just seemed to be that one interval uh either side of that, that interval on either side of it where the uh light flash phenomenon was not uh visible to uh to myself or to the other two crewmen.

17:54speaker 1Lunar orbit, uh I think uh the transcript and uh the my crew notebook would cover all the visual sightings that uh I can remember at this stage without uh going over it uh orbit by orbit and feature by feature with the photography, and I think that has to come later.

18:15speaker 1Entry we've covered in the previous uh briefings, and uh I think the same goes for landing and recovery.

18:25speaker 1Why don't you stop it a second, Tex, and

18:30speaker 125.0, pre-mission planning for the LMP. Uh

18:40speaker 1It's hard to think of once again of anything that we didn't do right. Uh I'm sure that might have been different had we had problems on the flight, but right the way the flight went, the total plan, the integration of the mission requirements into that plan,

18:59speaker 1uh although there were periods of some uh difficulty uh pre-flight, uh particularly in the area of uh medical requirements,

19:09speaker 1and in some last-minute uh uh possible scientific requirements, particularly on the samples, uh everything seemed to get resolved satisfactorily as near as I could tell, and uh I don't uh I can't think of anything that uh was not handled very well in between the people who uh were leveling uh levying the requirements and the flight planners in particular, and occasionally uh uh when the crew had to be involved, that was handled almost entirely uh by the support crew, Bob Parker in the science area and uh Gordy Fullerton and Bob Overmyer in the operational areas.

19:56speaker 1There were no significant spacecraft changes

20:00speaker 1in the course of our training period. Ron, I guess the biggest single area that took time was the one that Ron had to deal with, and that was the Lunar Sounder. Most of our ALSEP changes were all taken care of prior to our training, and we had a few minor suggestions that were taken care of early in the training cycle, and

20:33speaker 1we essentially had an up-to-date ALSEP to train with, and all other lunar surface gear was up-to-date for most of the 12-month training period, or the final 12 months of the training period.

20:51speaker 1Mission rules and techniques were fairly well-defined very early by Phil Shaffer and his crowd in the techniques area, and the mission rules certainly Jerry Griffin and people working on that. Oh, no major changes, and only the only changes were all, I felt, in the right direction in that they enhanced the probability of of making a a landing and a successful mission. They opened generally were in the area of opening up possibilities for workarounds so that a mission could be completed. We really never had to exercise any significant any of the mission rules in a in an abnormal way. I think the one time that a mission rule tended to, let me finish this check, okay, a mission rule tended to be fairly clearly a controlling factor was in the limitation on the the work at Station 4, Shorty Crater, where we were up against the walk-back constraints and terminated that work after only 35 minutes, where another 30 minutes there, I think, would have been extremely valuable, although I I hope that we got enough information that the phenomenon exposed at that crater can be understood. Okay, why don't you stop it, and we'll talk about the check.

22:27speaker 126.0 Mission Control. Typically outstanding support from Mission Control. I think the this includes the number of extracurricular hours that the LEM people and the EECOMs for the CSM, in particular, put in with me on Saturdays and and other times, just generally talking over systems and techniques and mission rules, and that was a major factor in helping me understand and keep up to speed on the on those items. I think the help that they gave me in designing and, fact is, they essentially did it, they did the design of the emergency cue cards that we did for Apollo 17 for the LEM, was a major contribution. Although, fortunately, not we did not use them, they still made it possible to understand very quickly systems problems and to solve those problems in the simulations, and had we required them, I think it would have gone very well. I particularly want to point out the help that Dick Thorson gave in organizing most of the our LEM sessions and even some of the joint CSM-LEM sessions that we had. And he also, Thorson also was a major organizer of the creation of and the updating of those emergency cue cards.

24:44speaker 1Human Factors, 27.0. Oh, let's go back. That's one other comment on 26.0. Post-flight, it's my understanding that some of the things I had hoped could be done during the flight were not possible because of real-time discussions in the Mission Control. Specifically, one of those things was to have some summary of the thinking of the science science backroom given to me while in flight, and that would be the thinking based on the data that we had transmitted to them verbally and, in a sense, visually through the television camera. I had hoped that I would have the benefit of their thinking, but apparently this was not possible to do. I would like to think that in the future we can look at ways of of using the a team approach to science investigations in space, rather than depending solely on the observational capability and the interpretive capability of the of the men who are performing the job. There's no reason that I can see to not use all the brainpower that's available for any given task, and part of that brainpower is on the ground.

26:37speaker 1Okay, 27.0. Human Factors, pre-flight. The pride of the discussions and organization from the crew point of view of the pre-flight health stabilization control program was borne by the commander, and the LMP just sort of went along with whatever was decided. I personally did not find any great difficulty in working out and adhering to the requirements of the of that program. I think medical care, although very of very limited requirement, was good. A couple of sinus infections I had reacted just like they always had, and we were able over a period of two 10 days or two weeks to get those cleared up. Time for exercise probably was less than it should have been, although I was able to get a good workout just about every other day, in addition to the workouts we got as a normal course of our EVA training. Eventually, Techs started scheduling putting on the schedule time in the late afternoon for exercise, and that helped as a reminder and and buffer to see that that exercise was obtained. It is generally hard, at least in the lunar training program, to get exercise periods in during the day, and quite frequently the exercise was done in the Cape gym at night. I think rest and sleep is a individual thing, and I made a particular effort to always get as as much as I possibly could and try never to get behind the power curve on rest because my personal experience is that that is when I tend to get colds and resulting sinus infections. Medical briefing was good. The exams seemed to go very well in my estimation. They were as expeditious as possible under the circumstances. And the I think the operational medical personnel who carried out the exams are to be complimented in their efforts to to see that the exam was as painless and as efficient as possible. And this should also include the post-flight exams on the Ticonderoga. Eating habits and amount of food consumption were normal, except during those periods of time when we

30:00speaker 1were uh on the in-flight food prior to launch, and uh those times there tended to be, in my case, a decrease of appetite and uh certainly a although the food was uh certainly uh palatable, uh my appetite did go down, and it certainly was not possible for me to eat the amount of food that was provided for me. This uh also applied to space work, but in the case of the uh in-flight uh eating, although I did not eat everything that was available to me in my uh food packages, I uh apparently should needed to if I had wanted to uh avoid losing weight. My appetite was down, but also apparently uh uh for some reason uh I had a loss of weight, and at

31:01speaker 1at this time of this recording, my weight is still down, as has not gone up to uh pre-flight levels, which may have been a little high, by the way.

31:16speaker 1Okay, uh 17.2 flight appetite and food preference. Well, I've just discussed that a little bit, and uh the appetite in-flight versus 2 weeks pre-flight uh was less, again, except for when we were testing the pre-flight food, when I also had a low appetite.

31:37speaker 1Uh no notable differences in the taste of food. I think the things I liked pre-flight uh I liked in space, and the things I didn't like, I also didn't like. I didn't notice any differences.

31:52speaker 1Uh change in food preferences as flight progressed. I tended to start to prefer to eat the wet packs and would uh eat those uh in preference to any of the other uh solid foods. I would strongly recommend uh, from my personal point of view at any rate, uh that food that the wet packs be used in preference to the uh rehydratable. I know I think that probably you get a different opinion from uh the other crew.

32:35speaker 1The juices were good. I uh after first period of the one and only uh period of difficulty with loose bowel movements, I did cut out the potassium-indicated foods, uh and although I can't say whether that had any effect or not, but uh I did not have any other loose I did not have any other bowel movements, and certainly no more loose ones, in uh before the end of the flight.

33:07speaker 1The uh first bowel movement after flight on the Ticonderoga was uh normal, the second was very loose, the third was normal, and the fourth and fifth very loose.

33:35speaker 1The size of food portions and the meal portions uh, of course, were pretty much constant uh in terms of availability packaging, uh but my uh appetite uh was very low the first uh day and gradually uh increased uh over the next 2 or 3 days and remained essentially the same uh after uh about the third day.

34:09speaker 1I mentioned the most acceptable foods were the wet packs and the juices. Uh the fruitcake I thought was good, although uh it was possible to eat too much or to get to a point where you didn't want any more. Uh the uh chocolate was good. Uh I think of the uh dry uh crackers or cookies, the graham crackers uh were probably the most uh tasty.

34:43speaker 1And uh peanut butter and jelly sandwiches were quite good.

34:51speaker 1Uh deviations from the menu and the eat periods uh are all recorded in the uh flight uh transcripts, I'm sure.

35:01speaker 1Okay, food preparation and consumption.

35:09speaker 1Uh rehydration uh went uh, I think, normally, uh and the nominal gas was present.

35:20speaker 1Food temperature, uh there tended to prefer uh the foods that were warm or hot, and they they were the hot water was quite adequate for uh warm foods. Uh we actually, I think, missed the warm foods considerably in the LM, where that hot water was not available.

35:41speaker 1I did not notice uh an effect of water flavor. Water was was reasonably tasty. I mean, it did not I never noticed a high uh chlorine uh taste of any kind. Although, the gas content did make it uh a little bit uncomfortable to eat at times.

36:02speaker 1Spoon-bowl packages worked pretty well, although those that uh were uh finely divided, I tended to cut off the other end of the package, the water insertion end, and uh use them as a squeeze package. Spoons worked perfectly adequate. I uh tended not to uh use the fruit in the cans because of just the messiness of opening and uh those, although there I think the technique that Ron uh worked out uh of opening it in your in your in your near your mouth uh is a uh good one.

36:41speaker 1Uh puddings and this kind of thing were very good. It was only the fruits, the canned fruits, that I tended to avoid just because they were inconvenient to use.

36:57speaker 1Food bars uh during the EVAs uh, I think, were good to have, although I never uh ate more than half of one. It wasn't because it was untasty, it just because of of a maybe a lack of uh interest in eating uh and using that time during the EVAs. Uh we, I think, after the EVA, before and after EVAs in the LM, uh ate very well.

37:24speaker 1There were some things, though, we did not we avoided. And I guess, in my case, uh after one having corn chowder once and it stimulating a major bowel movement, although not a loose one, I tended not I did not eat corn chowder. I did not eat the cocoa because I tended to feel like I got a little more uh per- uh gas from cocoa and an aftertaste. I did not eat the uh shrimp, the seafood uh items, shrimp and the lobster bisque and these sort of things, uh because of uh pre-flight I had noticed that they tended to have a long aftertaste.

38:06speaker 1But otherwise, I think all the other foods were uh certainly acceptable, uh although uh many times I did not eat uh potato-based foods because of uh just uh they were very filling.

38:30speaker 2I know it.

38:31speaker 3[laughter]

38:33speaker 2Oh, three day, oh, he's on that. [laughter]

38:40speaker 1Okay, food waste storage. I don't know how the germicidal tablet worked. Uh the the pouch was okay. Uh would have been nice to have a little uh dispenser that was easier to use than the pouch. I don't know whether that would be possible to do or not. It seems to me it would, a little tube dispenser of some kind where they came out more easily and you didn't tend to We usually just cut the corner off a pouch and and squeezed them out, but it did uh it was a little inconvenient, though nothing major.

39:11speaker 1We used the germicidal tablets, I did in any rate, in uh in all the juice bags and the food spoon-bowl bags and the wet packs. Uh I did not use them in the tea and coffee.

39:25speaker 1Undesirable odors, really, uh except for the passing of gas occasionally uh by the other crewmen and some occasionally by myself, uh undesirable odors were at a minimum. I did not find that the uh atmosphere was uh unpleasant uh as a general rule.

39:52speaker 1I might say that I uh generally had a continuous uh, almost continuous, uh passage of gas, mostly

40:00speaker 1which apparently was not uh of was significant older. Only occasionally that uh seemed to be uh objectionable to the other crewmen.

40:14speaker 1Now, I think most of that was the water gas. And the reason I think that is that upon eating, upon starting to eat, there would be a increased desire to pass gas. Increased pressure in my stomach apparently was transmitted almost immediately into the bowels. And I would, after eating, I would pass gas for a couple hours and uh to three hours.

40:44speaker 1And just before eating the next time, the desire would uh have have pretty well dissipated and then it would start again immediately immediately upon eating, before any digestion was possible, I'm sure. So, I suspect water gas was the main uh culprit in uh in the LMP's uh gas problems, which were not significant.

41:08speaker 1Quantity of food eaten on the lunar surface, I think was was high, although uh probably no more than half of that food that was available. It's hard to say exactly, and I think that could be worked out maybe with a detailed look at the menus if that uh if that is desirable.

41:36speaker 1And to estimate the quantity would be very difficult, food uh food quantity of food discarded on the lunar surface would be difficult without looking at the detailed menus and checking off those items that I'm sure we ate, that I ate, at any rate.

41:53speaker 1Skylab fecal container, I don't know that we had that.

41:57speaker 2Oh, you did, but

41:58speaker 1We used a blue bag.

41:59speaker 2Oh, that's right. We threw that on 14 and this one.

42:02speaker 1The blue bag is not a bad way to uh to defecate unless the stool is loose. If it's loose, it's just about impossible to use.

42:17speaker 1And uh I don't know what you do in zero gravity for loose stools. I don't know of any clever way to prevent that being a problem, and I'm not even sure whatever the Skylab people are using will prevent that from being a problem. The best thing you can do is to work out prevention of loose stools rather than trying to handle them after you get them.

42:43speaker 1It is a loose stool is one of the major hygiene and sanitary and operational problems that you can have on a flight. I can't emphasize that more. You can, if it happened on a regular basis, on a daily basis, you would, I think, eventually cut the efficiency of the crew member with the problem uh by a significant percentage, possibly as much as a as 30%, depending on the magnitude of the problem.

43:16speaker 1I think it's important to try to understand why uh Apollo 17 was different than uh 16 and at least in the uh delay of a problem with loose stools until about the 11th or 12th day, and in the case of the commander, uh no problem with loose stools. And uh my personal opinion at this point, based on uh very little uh information other than observation in flight and thinking about levels of electrolyte intake, is that with the uh electrolyte quantity down from that uh uh imposed on Apollo 16, that we did not reach a electrolyte saturation level until the 11th or 12th day in terms of this CMP and the LMP, and in terms of commander, because his electrolyte intake was generally less, I think, and that can be documented, he didn't he did not reach a saturation level at all. And when that saturation level was reached, however, in the case of the CMP and LMP, I suspect that the electrolytes we were eating were kind of dumped, in a sense, or concentrated in the intestines and tended to act pretty much as a laxative, and as a uh a Epsom salt type laxative, if you will, and concentrate water in the stool.

44:45speaker 1I think it's important for Skylab that uh, first of all, we probably reduce the electrolyte intake so that saturation is never reached. And secondly, that if a loose stool problem develops, it appears to be an electrolyte problem rather than any other biological problem, uh that uh that we uh uh decrease the uh intake of electrolytes. This is what I did on my own, and and uh whether or not it worked or not is hard to say because the flight was terminated before any other uh stools occurred.

45:42speaker 1Okay, water. Chlorination odor was not apparent to me except during chlorination. Iodination odor uh very slight apparent in the LM water, but not not uh of any significance to the LMP.

46:02speaker 1Physical discomfort, no physical discomfort for the LMP other than uh tiredness on occasion and uh in the case of the of the EVA work, uh sore muscles and uh the bruises under the fingernails.

46:24speaker 1Gas water separator didn't work very effectively, and I'm sure that's been discussed elsewhere. Uh, intensity of thirst during mission, never really uh thirsty uh extensively thirsty, even during the EVAs, although I did uh stop to take a drink of water occasionally. But I never drunk, I never drank all the water in the in-flight uh drink bag, in-suit drink bag.

46:57speaker 1Work, rest, and sleep. Okay.

47:07speaker 1Hey, techs, could you try to call the uh call the trailer?

47:13speaker 1Where was I? Work, rest, sleep for the LMP. Uh, a the difficulty in going to sleep was variable. And when Seconal was used, uh generally no difficulty in going to sleep. When it was not used, I guess there was a tendency to stay awake a little bit longer, but on other occasions uh the absence of Seconal did not seem to to affect the rate of going to sleep. There was a tendency on a couple on several nights to go to sleep and then wake up fairly soon after going to sleep, within an hour. And then, the second time took a little bit maybe sometimes took up to an hour to go back to sleep.

47:58speaker 1Uh, but I feel that the medical log reports that for the LMP were uh generally valid, that probably average of 5 and 1/2 to 6 hours of sleep per night was good, and I don't think, except for maybe one night somewhere in there, uh did I go much below that. But the sleep was rarely probably never continuous for more than uh 3 hours without waking up.

48:30speaker 1Uh, I feel that 6 hours is is adequate sleep for the kind of work we were doing in space. Uh, however, the programming of 8 hours is is necessary in order to get 6 hours because of the periods of wakefulness uh when uh during sleep periods and for just the difficulty in getting the cabin organized and and everybody to bed at the pr- programmed time. So, maintaining an 8-hour sleep period is is, I think, mandatory in order to obtain the 6 hours that is probably uh all that is required uh to to perform the mission uh without getting uh tired or getting behind the power curve, as they say, with respect to sleep.

49:18speaker 1Restraints, uh I had the feeling that uh, find anybody else?

49:22speaker 2Not yet.

49:23speaker 1Hmm. I had the feeling uh that I wanted to have my head and limbs restrained in order to get a good sleep, although I did sleep at times without without that restraint. I, if I were rebuilding the sleep restraints, I for my personal use, I would make them smaller with uh somewhat more uh uh feeling of restraint. They're a little bit large, I would say, for for use. Um,

50:00speaker 1When I slept in the couch, I tended to put a shoulder strap over my head and cinch it down very lightly so that I had that feeling of head restraint. Probably the big two things that made sleep difficult

50:14speaker 1when it was difficult was the loss of sensory perception of limb position in zero gravity when when they were not being moved. That perception came back immediately upon moving them.

50:27speaker 1But when they were just static and in a rest position, there tended to be, for for the LMP at any rate, a loss of sensory perception of the position of the limbs.